Hi,
Máirín Duffy recently made a couple of posts about some ideas for
Mailman.
<http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/03/13/mailman-brainstorm/>
<http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/03/14/mailman-brainstorm-2/>
Many are ideas we have considered, or implemented in GroupServer, so I
thought I would document our experience.
1. Promoting Good Posts
One of the issues that we found with GroupServer is that most people
interact with a mailing list using email! As a consequence, a
feature like rating a post would not be used much.
However, sharing a post is quite useful. Our posts can appear on
a page by themselves, and you can link to them directly.
Alternatively, you can use one of a handful of social-media sites
to share a post. I should find some statistics on how much it is
used!
Being able to link to posts shapes conversations because it allows
people to say “As I said earlier…” more easily, but only if they
are using the Web.
*Notes*
1. Example link to a post
<http://groupserver.org/r/post/2foa3JdFBcXP3RNAHk7Zy5>
2. Embedded keyword highlights
I like the idea of highlighting keywords in a topic. However, I am
unsure how much it would be used. However…
3. Keyword Summary
We implement a keyword summary in GroupServer. The keywords appear
under the topic-name, in the list of topics in a group GroupServer
uses the TF-IDF algorithm to pick the keywords, and it seems to work
well.
The idea is that they do not have to be perfect, but they have to
help improve the “information scent” on a page, such as a group
page or the search results. Because the keywords are generated
automatically they work fine when people post using just email.
However, when they cannot *find* a post or a topic (because they
get too much email) then the web interface and the keywords become
useful.
*Notes*
1. List of topics in a group
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development>
2. Keywords in the search results
<http://groupserver.org/s/?s=keyword>
4. High School Yearbook
The Members page in GroupServer shows who posted recently, and who
has posted the most, which is similar to Máirín's yearbook idea.
I have an idea for “gamifying” GroupServer, by allowing people to
unlock achievements such as opening a topic, or replying to a post.
I suppose the achievements could also feed into the Members page,
so highly-decorated members are shown! I have added a ticket to
remind so to add this feature.
*Notes*
1. The members page is in GroupServer Development
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development/members.html>
2. The Gamifying Groupserver ticket
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/670>
3. The new “Important Members” ticket
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/show/894>
5. Mail Message Pingbacks
Pingbacks would be cool. I have a similar idea where you would be
notified if someone mentions you
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/644>
6. User Profiles
GroupServer has user profiles <http://groupserver.org/p/mpj17>
Out of the box it supports a name, photo and biography; that seems
to work well. The profiles on GroupServer also have a list of past
posts, and past files (attachments).
Like Máirín, I'd love to be able to provide some statistics about
how people post, and how people relate to other people
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/238>
One problem with user profiles, is that email-addresses become
far harder to handle. Not only do you have the same person posting
from multiple email addresses, you have to be able to set which
email address should be used by your system to deliver email from
each group. In addition, people get really confused when they create
a second profile, with a second address, and that second profile
does not have the same permissions as their original profile!
Profiles are good, but they are a lot of work, and we have a long
way to go ourselves. For example:
Profile Search: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/538>
Delete Profiles: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/697>
Merge Profiles: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/400>
Multiple Profile Photos: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/329>
Admin can Edit Profiles: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/258>
Email Address Synonyms: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/669>
Change Email Address: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/490>
7. Family Tree Thread
GroupServer does not support threading. Indeed, I've never come
across a non-tech user that ever uses threading. While I am sure
some find it useful, it is not really our thing.
8. Welcome Gift
Máirín's welcome gift idea made me think of two things. First, the
gamerfication idea that I mentioned in “High School Yearbook” (4);
Joining a group is another achievement!
Second, you can get the Welcome Gift quite cheaply by sending an
email to the group-administrator telling him or her that there is a
new member in the group. For large groups this would get
overwhelming, but even in large public groups there are not *that*
many joins.
GroupServer sends this notification, and also lists the joins and
leaves on the Join and Leave Log. The log can only be seen by the
administrator, for privacy reasons, but the screenshots in this post
give you an idea of what it looks like
<http://groupserver.org/r/post/o57dtxTfsawc77k5YHjMF>
9. Read via Thread Timeline
GroupServer is built around the idea that a simple chronological
list of posts is best. All it does is split posts into Topics, which
are based purely on the subject line of each post; the posts are
chronologically sorted with each topic. This seems to work well, as
we have found that any metadata other than the Subject is prone to
problems, such as thread-hijacking.
One thing that we have found is sometimes topics get restarted after
a dormant period. We would like to be able to fold-up some of the
older posts, so they do not get in the way
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/455>
10. Top 10 Threads of All-Time
GroupServer *does* have “sticky” topics, which is similar to the
top-ten threads. With a Sticky topic the administrator can promote
the topic, and it always sits at the top of the Topics page.
However, I do not show them on the Group page, yet
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/861>
11. Topics to be Wary Of
I had a similar idea to “Topics to be Wary Of”, but in relation to
moderation. The Elitist Jerks forum have a concept of a Dung Heap.
Initially I thought of putting all moderated posts into a dung heap,
so the moderators can learn what should be banned. However, Máirín
makes a compelling case for a *public* dung heap, but we will need
a better name for it.
*Notes*
1. The Dungheap at the Elitist Jerks forum
<http://elitistjerks.com/f23/>
2. My rather large “Rebuild Moderation” ticket, which mentions
the dungheap <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/249>
12. User’s Filter Tools
I like Máirín's idea of filtering. GroupServer implements a little
of it when searching, but not nearly enough
<http://groupserver.org/s/>
13. Crowdsourced Thread Metadata
Adding any metadata is problematic because most will view posts
using email. That makes it less useful than anything you can do
automatically, like adding keywords, or…
14. Keyword-Based Thread Browse
I *love* the idea of Keyword-Based Thread Browse. I think it would
be very useful for someone coming along and browsing for
information. I am not sure how to do it: the TF-IDF algorithm that
GroupServer uses to generate its keywords favours words that appear
frequently in one topic, but are infrequent in other topics; I
suppose we have to find the most common words from the set of least
common words!
Alternatively a Basian filter may be able to group topics? That
would be fun for someone to write!
15. Images in Messages
Currently GroupServer shows the images at the end of each post. I
have been musing about moving them to the right of the post,
especially if I could spot the filename in the body. I call these
callouts: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/447>
You do not have to stop at images either. You can create thumbnails
of movies, PDF files and doc files
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/451>
16. User Post Quality Report
Máirín's quality report made me think (again) of making a mailing
list more like a game. Administrators could hand out badges to
people who make excellent posts, or raise good points, for example.
These badges can then be used on the “Yearbook” (4).
17. List Monthly Health
GroupServer currently generates a lot of statistics about the
posting on the site. However, Máirín mentioned many good ones about
posting itself, which I have noted
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/896>
18. Special Commit List Layout
Currently GroupServer supports three different group types: a
discussion list, an announcement list, and a support group. For the
most part everything looks the same. However, there is nothing
preventing a specialised group rending posts in a particular way.
*However*, it is a bit too specialised, and I think Web feeds
(such as RSS and ATOM) are better suited.
19. Thread Starter Moderates It
We call this idea “Group that Behaves like a Blog”. Máirín is quite
right, the only thing that is really required is the ability to
restrict who can *start* a topic. Everything else is window
dressing!
*Notes*
1. The “Group that Behaves like a Blog” ticket
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/194>
2. Restricting who can start a topic
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/193>
20. Podcast Script Generator
Much like the “Special Commit List Layout” (18), this is a bit
esoteric for my liking. However, being *able* to create such an
interface would be a great thing, as it would show that the
underlying system is flexible and powerful.
21. Post Vote Bucket
The Post Vote Bucket idea is similar to a few of things. First,
moderation allows much of this feature: each moderator has one vote,
and that is all that is require for a post to appear. In addition, a
discussion list can be manually turned into posts on an announcement
list by someone reading the posts in one, and making posts in the
other. It sounds clunky, but it actually works. Finally, GroupServer
has a *topic* *digest* that shows the topics that have been
discussed recently. In many ways that it acts as a cheep way to
provide the post-vote bucket.
*Notes*
1. The topic digest for GroupServer Development. The contents of
this page is put into an email and sent out to those that want
to receive it
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development/digest.txt>
22. Mentioned in Thread Refs
I like the idea of the “mentioned-in references”, so I turned it
into a ticket <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/898>
23. In-Thread Survey
Much like “Promoting Good Posts” (1), a survey would only work if
most people used the web. However, in our experience most people use
email to interact with a mailing list.
24. List Summary Page
In GroupServer we call the List Summary-Page the Group Page
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development> We are slowly making
the page more powerful:
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/495>
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/497>
25. Take It Offlist Suggestor
This is a good idea bit it does suffer the problem as “Promoting
Good Posts” (1): it is web only. Email already has a good solution:
the group administrator directly emails the participants telling
them to take their discussion elsewhere.
26. Mailman Day Survey
We do not send out membership reminders, yet. We have been musing
about adding some messages from the administrator to make the email
more compelling, rather than adding a survey.
*Notes*
1. Monthly Status Reminder
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/370>
27. Embedded Bugzilla Escalation
This is a bit too specialised for my taste, a bit like the “Special
Commit List Layout” (18). I like it, but it is very specialised!
28. Action Items for List
One of the things I want to get going is multiple web feeds (RSS or
ATOM) appearing on a page. Could this allow a bug-tracking system to
act as the source of the action-items for a list?
*Notes*
1. Multiple Web Feeds
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/3396>
29. Scheduled Nagger
Like “Action Items for List” (28) I think a scheduled nagger would be
best handled by an external system, and for *integration* to provide
the power.
30. Freeze Thread Option
I doubt if “Freeze Thread” would work. In my experience all that
will happen is that the topic will fork. I can think of a few
things that will heat out a discussion.
1. Moderation: labour intensive, but it will work.
2. Close the group for short period of time: nothing can fork
because *no* posts are allowed!
3. Set a posting rate: if a person is limited to two posts in a
day then he or she may be more tempted to consider what is being
written. The flip-side of this is that it encourages a post
to ramble off-topic.
GroupServer currently implements moderation and the posting rate. I
hope to implement closing a group soon
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/449>
31. Message Annotation
Creating a system for message annotation could work, but it would be
hard to beat a text-editor and noting down URLs to a post.
32. Refine Posts Into Articles
Máirín Duffy recently made a couple of posts about some ideas for
Mailman.
<http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/03/13/mailman-brainstorm/>
<http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/03/14/mailman-brainstorm-2/>
Many are ideas we have considered, or implemented in GroupServer, so I
thought I would document our experience.
1. Promoting Good Posts
One of the issues that we found with GroupServer is that most people
interact with a mailing list using email! As a consequence, a
feature like rating a post would not be used much.
However, sharing a post is quite useful. Our posts can appear on
a page by themselves, and you can link to them directly.
Alternatively, you can use one of a handful of social-media sites
to share a post. I should find some statistics on how much it is
used!
Being able to link to posts shapes conversations because it allows
people to say “As I said earlier…” more easily, but only if they
are using the Web.
*Notes*
1. Example link to a post
<http://groupserver.org/r/post/2foa3JdFBcXP3RNAHk7Zy5>
2. Embedded keyword highlights
I like the idea of highlighting keywords in a topic. However, I am
unsure how much it would be used. However…
3. Keyword Summary
We implement a keyword summary in GroupServer. The keywords appear
under the topic-name, in the list of topics in a group GroupServer
uses the TF-IDF algorithm to pick the keywords, and it seems to work
well.
The idea is that they do not have to be perfect, but they have to
help improve the “information scent” on a page, such as a group
page or the search results. Because the keywords are generated
automatically they work fine when people post using just email.
However, when they cannot *find* a post or a topic (because they
get too much email) then the web interface and the keywords become
useful.
*Notes*
1. List of topics in a group
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development>
2. Keywords in the search results
<http://groupserver.org/s/?s=keyword>
4. High School Yearbook
The Members page in GroupServer shows who posted recently, and who
has posted the most, which is similar to Máirín's yearbook idea.
I have an idea for “gamifying” GroupServer, by allowing people to
unlock achievements such as opening a topic, or replying to a post.
I suppose the achievements could also feed into the Members page,
so highly-decorated members are shown! I have added a ticket to
remind so to add this feature.
*Notes*
1. The members page is in GroupServer Development
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development/members.html>
2. The Gamifying Groupserver ticket
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/670>
3. The new “Important Members” ticket
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/show/894>
5. Mail Message Pingbacks
Pingbacks would be cool. I have a similar idea where you would be
notified if someone mentions you
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/644>
6. User Profiles
GroupServer has user profiles <http://groupserver.org/p/mpj17>
Out of the box it supports a name, photo and biography; that seems
to work well. The profiles on GroupServer also have a list of past
posts, and past files (attachments).
Like Máirín, I'd love to be able to provide some statistics about
how people post, and how people relate to other people
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/238>
One problem with user profiles, is that email-addresses become
far harder to handle. Not only do you have the same person posting
from multiple email addresses, you have to be able to set which
email address should be used by your system to deliver email from
each group. In addition, people get really confused when they create
a second profile, with a second address, and that second profile
does not have the same permissions as their original profile!
Profiles are good, but they are a lot of work, and we have a long
way to go ourselves. For example:
Profile Search: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/538>
Delete Profiles: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/697>
Merge Profiles: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/400>
Multiple Profile Photos: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/329>
Admin can Edit Profiles: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/258>
Email Address Synonyms: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/669>
Change Email Address: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/490>
7. Family Tree Thread
GroupServer does not support threading. Indeed, I've never come
across a non-tech user that ever uses threading. While I am sure
some find it useful, it is not really our thing.
8. Welcome Gift
Máirín's welcome gift idea made me think of two things. First, the
gamerfication idea that I mentioned in “High School Yearbook” (4);
Joining a group is another achievement!
Second, you can get the Welcome Gift quite cheaply by sending an
email to the group-administrator telling him or her that there is a
new member in the group. For large groups this would get
overwhelming, but even in large public groups there are not *that*
many joins.
GroupServer sends this notification, and also lists the joins and
leaves on the Join and Leave Log. The log can only be seen by the
administrator, for privacy reasons, but the screenshots in this post
give you an idea of what it looks like
<http://groupserver.org/r/post/o57dtxTfsawc77k5YHjMF>
9. Read via Thread Timeline
GroupServer is built around the idea that a simple chronological
list of posts is best. All it does is split posts into Topics, which
are based purely on the subject line of each post; the posts are
chronologically sorted with each topic. This seems to work well, as
we have found that any metadata other than the Subject is prone to
problems, such as thread-hijacking.
One thing that we have found is sometimes topics get restarted after
a dormant period. We would like to be able to fold-up some of the
older posts, so they do not get in the way
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/455>
10. Top 10 Threads of All-Time
GroupServer *does* have “sticky” topics, which is similar to the
top-ten threads. With a Sticky topic the administrator can promote
the topic, and it always sits at the top of the Topics page.
However, I do not show them on the Group page, yet
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/861>
11. Topics to be Wary Of
I had a similar idea to “Topics to be Wary Of”, but in relation to
moderation. The Elitist Jerks forum have a concept of a Dung Heap.
Initially I thought of putting all moderated posts into a dung heap,
so the moderators can learn what should be banned. However, Máirín
makes a compelling case for a *public* dung heap, but we will need
a better name for it.
*Notes*
1. The Dungheap at the Elitist Jerks forum
<http://elitistjerks.com/f23/>
2. My rather large “Rebuild Moderation” ticket, which mentions
the dungheap <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/249>
12. User’s Filter Tools
I like Máirín's idea of filtering. GroupServer implements a little
of it when searching, but not nearly enough
<http://groupserver.org/s/>
13. Crowdsourced Thread Metadata
Adding any metadata is problematic because most will view posts
using email. That makes it less useful than anything you can do
automatically, like adding keywords, or…
14. Keyword-Based Thread Browse
I *love* the idea of Keyword-Based Thread Browse. I think it would
be very useful for someone coming along and browsing for
information. I am not sure how to do it: the TF-IDF algorithm that
GroupServer uses to generate its keywords favours words that appear
frequently in one topic, but are infrequent in other topics; I
suppose we have to find the most common words from the set of least
common words!
Alternatively a Basian filter may be able to group topics? That
would be fun for someone to write!
15. Images in Messages
Currently GroupServer shows the images at the end of each post. I
have been musing about moving them to the right of the post,
especially if I could spot the filename in the body. I call these
callouts: <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/447>
You do not have to stop at images either. You can create thumbnails
of movies, PDF files and doc files
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/451>
16. User Post Quality Report
Máirín's quality report made me think (again) of making a mailing
list more like a game. Administrators could hand out badges to
people who make excellent posts, or raise good points, for example.
These badges can then be used on the “Yearbook” (4).
17. List Monthly Health
GroupServer currently generates a lot of statistics about the
posting on the site. However, Máirín mentioned many good ones about
posting itself, which I have noted
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/896>
18. Special Commit List Layout
Currently GroupServer supports three different group types: a
discussion list, an announcement list, and a support group. For the
most part everything looks the same. However, there is nothing
preventing a specialised group rending posts in a particular way.
*However*, it is a bit too specialised, and I think Web feeds
(such as RSS and ATOM) are better suited.
19. Thread Starter Moderates It
We call this idea “Group that Behaves like a Blog”. Máirín is quite
right, the only thing that is really required is the ability to
restrict who can *start* a topic. Everything else is window
dressing!
*Notes*
1. The “Group that Behaves like a Blog” ticket
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/194>
2. Restricting who can start a topic
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/193>
20. Podcast Script Generator
Much like the “Special Commit List Layout” (18), this is a bit
esoteric for my liking. However, being *able* to create such an
interface would be a great thing, as it would show that the
underlying system is flexible and powerful.
21. Post Vote Bucket
The Post Vote Bucket idea is similar to a few of things. First,
moderation allows much of this feature: each moderator has one vote,
and that is all that is require for a post to appear. In addition, a
discussion list can be manually turned into posts on an announcement
list by someone reading the posts in one, and making posts in the
other. It sounds clunky, but it actually works. Finally, GroupServer
has a *topic* *digest* that shows the topics that have been
discussed recently. In many ways that it acts as a cheep way to
provide the post-vote bucket.
*Notes*
1. The topic digest for GroupServer Development. The contents of
this page is put into an email and sent out to those that want
to receive it
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development/digest.txt>
22. Mentioned in Thread Refs
I like the idea of the “mentioned-in references”, so I turned it
into a ticket <https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/898>
23. In-Thread Survey
Much like “Promoting Good Posts” (1), a survey would only work if
most people used the web. However, in our experience most people use
email to interact with a mailing list.
24. List Summary Page
In GroupServer we call the List Summary-Page the Group Page
<http://groupserver.org/groups/development> We are slowly making
the page more powerful:
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/495>
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/497>
25. Take It Offlist Suggestor
This is a good idea bit it does suffer the problem as “Promoting
Good Posts” (1): it is web only. Email already has a good solution:
the group administrator directly emails the participants telling
them to take their discussion elsewhere.
26. Mailman Day Survey
We do not send out membership reminders, yet. We have been musing
about adding some messages from the administrator to make the email
more compelling, rather than adding a survey.
*Notes*
1. Monthly Status Reminder
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/370>
27. Embedded Bugzilla Escalation
This is a bit too specialised for my taste, a bit like the “Special
Commit List Layout” (18). I like it, but it is very specialised!
28. Action Items for List
One of the things I want to get going is multiple web feeds (RSS or
ATOM) appearing on a page. Could this allow a bug-tracking system to
act as the source of the action-items for a list?
*Notes*
1. Multiple Web Feeds
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/3396>
29. Scheduled Nagger
Like “Action Items for List” (28) I think a scheduled nagger would be
best handled by an external system, and for *integration* to provide
the power.
30. Freeze Thread Option
I doubt if “Freeze Thread” would work. In my experience all that
will happen is that the topic will fork. I can think of a few
things that will heat out a discussion.
1. Moderation: labour intensive, but it will work.
2. Close the group for short period of time: nothing can fork
because *no* posts are allowed!
3. Set a posting rate: if a person is limited to two posts in a
day then he or she may be more tempted to consider what is being
written. The flip-side of this is that it encourages a post
to ramble off-topic.
GroupServer currently implements moderation and the posting rate. I
hope to implement closing a group soon
<https://redmine.iopen.net/issues/449>
31. Message Annotation
Creating a system for message annotation could work, but it would be
hard to beat a text-editor and noting down URLs to a post.
32. Refine Posts Into Articles